Do Nice Guys Finish Last?
![[Nice guy finishing last.]](http://7pproductions.com/img/a-h/angry_nice_guy.jpg)
As I was walking into a building, I tried to be nice and opened the door to let a woman behind me go first. Before I knew it, a group of guys just quickly and carelessly walked out through the door I was holding open for the woman. It was a glass door so they must have seen I was trying to let the woman go first.
I wasn’t sure which shocked me more - the fact that they didn’t wait for the woman or that they expected me to hold the door for them without even a “thank you”! As I stood there simply dumbfounded with what happened, I began to ask the age-old question: do nice guys finish last?
I decided to finally answer this question once and for all. This can only be achieved by applying a scientifically rigorous approach. My method was to think of a few questions that would test my theory, arrive at the answers using my gut instincts, and then use Google to see if anyone else agrees.
Note: the question, “Do nice gals finish last?” also applies!
Do Nice Guys Finish Last REGARDING LOVE?
This was a big question, so I had to make sure I had very good proof to support my claim, and I may have found the most authoritative source there is. A wikiHow article described seventeen steps (yes, seventeen!) to ask for a date. You can’t get more detailed than that. Although the article does recommend being nice, a much more emphasis was put on being persistent in order to succeed. If you believe the article, you would deduce that if a woman who was being asked out by two people, one being nice and the other being persistent, the person who gets the date would be the persistent one.
Answer: When it comes to finding love, nice guys finish last.
![[Nice romance.]](http://7pproductions.com/img/i-q/nice_romance.jpg)
Now, what happens after love is found? Happily ever after does not happen by itself. The relationship has to be fresh, alive, anew. According to an Art of Manliness article, you gotta feed the flame. The article continues by recommending to give attention to the partner through actions such as being courteous, giving gifts, and having date nights. Clearly, being nice is important in keeping the romance alive.
Answer: When it comes to keeping love, nice guys finish first.
Do Nice Guys Finish Last REGARDING FRIENDS?
This question is easy. If you’re not a nice person, why would anyone want to be around you? You can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Answer: When it comes to casual friends and acquaintances, nice guys finish first.
There is an exception to the answer. When you need to ask for honest advice, do you go to your casual friends or acquaintances? No, you go to your best buddy, your confidant, your partner in crime. Why? Because that’s the only way to get an honest answer, whether you like the answer or not. If your best friend told you any different, that person has lost credibility with you. Trust is more important than being nice when it comes to your best friends.
Answer: When it comes to best friends and confidants, nice guys finish last.
Do Nice Guys Finish Last REGARDING WORK?
![[Nice romance.]](http://7pproductions.com/img/i-q/nice_coworker.jpg)
This looks like it should be a no-brainer. When you’re working in a team environment, a good attitude is contagious. Being polite, professional, and courteous helps with team chemistry.
Answer: When working with other employees, nice guys finish first.
Things are a little different when it comes to sales. When was the last time you said “no” only once to a salesperson? I’m sure there’s a nice salesperson out there that takes the first “no” for an answer, but there’s not that many. Why? Because they wouldn’t last long in their job. I had a telemarketing job once that paid on commission. I learned real quick to be persistent or else I’d be working for free.
Answer: When it comes to making money and sales, nice guys finish last.
Do Nice Guys Finish Last IN A CONFRONTATION?
It takes quite a level head to be able to maintain composure and still be nice when faced with a confrontational situation. It’s so impressive, it’s actually disarming. I usually find that after the other person vents for a little bit without any push back, that person would typically decompresses and then start to engage in a reasonable exchange.
Answer: When it comes to confrontations, nice guys finish first.
What if the other person doesn’t decompress? What if the other person is stubbornly looking to escalate the situation some more? What if it gets physical? It’s still not too late. If you’re able to still be mindful of your safety, there’s still a chance you can decompress the situation. However, there is a point where you may not be able to mind your own safety against a belligerent person, and if it comes to the point where you need to physically defend yourself, just remember the one rule about street brawls: there are no rules. That’s why the confrontation should be decompressed at all costs.
Answer: When it comes to surviving a fight, nice guys finish last.
CONCLUSION
Nice guys are in danger of finishing last when they confuse kindness with weakness. As long as they keep that in mind, nice guys can indeed finish first.
Al at 7P
Mitcehll Allen
Ron Hitson
Chris | Martial Development
It might be a thin difference, but there are some differences between good guy and nice guy. Good guy is secure of himself, able to build boundary, independent, confident, and not a people pleaser.
And actually I think, if you’re a good guy, you won’t mind finishing last (as when you open the door) coz you are very secure of yourself that you even dare to serve them. You don’t have to impress them, as you managed to impress yourself, you stay true to your values.
That’s my thought!
Robert
That’s ok because I have… My Mask!!!
In China the people are not obsessed with beating each other over all other things. They strive for a good situational outcome, then, congratulate each other for participating in a ‘Group Win’. This may be part of the psychological edge they appear to have over North Americans in the business world - no grandstanding ego-maniacal assholes screwing everyone else to look good for themselves, just a quiet group, working towards a successful end. Some day, when Americans are no longer obsessed with bra sizes, penis lengths, raw horsepower, mega-McMansions and loudness, one day, when we grow up, we may find a more level playing field and a chance to win in world business. In the mean time . . .
hey, nice article.
only bit i’d disagree with really is ‘When it comes to best friends and confidants, nice guys finish last.’. but everyone has their own opinions.
thanks for an interesting read.
There is a difference between being nice and being submissive.
Once I learned this line, I understood everything about a “nice guy”
I hate it when men think that if they pester a woman long enough she will always give in. I think this is absolute nonsense (possibly they get it from movies?) and it looks creepy and stalkerish.
Actually, flies are more attracted to vinegar than honey. try it for yourself. There goes your third assumption.
@Robert - that’s an interesting point… being a ‘good’ person, rather than just being a ‘nice’ person.
I see your point and I agree with it. A good person can be a nice person, and indeed most of the times they are one and the same. However, when the situation calls for it, the good person will adjust the attitude to whatever the situation calls for.
Thanks for the feedback!
@Uncle B - that’s an interesting point about group win vs. an individual win. I don’t know much about the current trends in the Chinese culture, but the impression that I was getting was that they were adopting more and more of the western culture (whether that’s a good thing is another question).
Is having the ‘group win’ mentality and being nice to each other a sustainable value? I don’t know enough to answer that question on the Chinese side, but with problems such as climate change, I do see a growing sense of ‘group win’ in the West. Here’s hoping this kind of thinking increases.
@andrew - thanks for the comment. Sorry you don’t fully agree with all my points, but I appreciate your honesty and not being simply nice and agreeing with everything!
@Hai - agreed, being nice doesn’t mean being submissive. In fact, I’d probably would use the word ‘accommodating’ rather than ’submissive’, but I see your point.
@greghousesgf - I do believe that being diligent is a good value to have, but when taken to the extreme, it would be pestering.
I don’t think I was implying taking things to that extreme, but if something is worth winning, then one should be willing to not give up so easily.
Being persistent isn’t a symptom of being obnoxious. The nicest guy in the world can be persistent. Persistence is good! It’s only a question of *how* one is persistent. Persistence can be done in a nice and tasteful way, or it can be done in an obnoxious way. I don’t think a blanket statement can be made for defining the ethics of persistence.
I totally agree with you on the confrontation sentiment. Good call. But also, I think the nice guy would utilize every opportunity available to be effective in a fight if it meant protecting himself, or someone else. To be nice to ourselves, we must protect ourselves and our loved ones. Fighting “dirty” is the nice thing to do when it is necessary to protect oneself and ones loved ones.
Though, I think your closing statement clarifies all of this. Is that right?
Thank you for the thought provoking article.
Your post reminded me of a time when my son Sebastian (a lovely person) was 5 years old. He was being bullied at school. He had started karate classes and had been told NEVER to use it. So he asked me:
“Mum, do I then just let them hit me?”
“You hold your hands up, palms out and ask them to stop when they start closing in, ” said his Blackbelt mum. “Now you’ve already got your hands where you need them. Because just when they’re about to punch you. YOU PUNCH THEM FIRST!”
That was his first lesson in anti-niceness. Kind is good, generous is good, good is great. But ‘nice’ is living without guts and integrity.
hummm… NERD
@ Bamboo Forest - wow, you articulated my point better than me. Agreed - blanket statements can’t be made about persistence. Thanks for the comment.
I might replace ‘nice person’ with ‘good person’ as Robert had suggested. Clearly, the good person will do whatever it takes to protect loved ones, but hopefully it never gets to that point.
@ Mary - thanks for the story about your son. Although it was an important lesson learned, the story also made me laugh! Rather than the palms up being a show of good will, it’s actually a cheat to get a better punch. Brilliant!
@ Julian - that’s not very nice!
Al,
Being nice is not bad if you learn the art of saying “NO” to things that are life energy vampires.
Shilpan
Shilpan,
I really like that phrase, “life energy vampires.” It describes those things in life that deplete you, rather than add value to you or to whatever is important to you. Being nice without being mindful of such things would indeed be reckless.
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Sometimes, when it comes to love, nice guys may never finsih at all…
Hi John - I can’t let you leave on a bad note… as long as the nice guy doesn’t quit, he will ultimately finish first. Guaranteed.
Concerning nice guys finishing last in finding love. Women allow themselves to be pressured into accepting a man; nice guys expect and permit the woman to make up her own mind, while not-nice guys do not. That’s the problem: nice guys want a woman who knows what she wants, and who cannot complain later that she was taken advantage of, or coerced, or was worn down. Women who permit those things to happen are weak in some senses of the word.
Hi Michael - what you say may be true for some people, but I’m not sure if I would generalize it.
Guys generally like women who knows what she wants, but if the woman of your dreams does not initially notice you, it would be a shame if you give up on her so quickly.
[…] Do Nice Guys Finish Last?: I decided to finally answer this question once and for all. This can only be achieved by applying a scientifically rigorous approach. My method was to think of a few questions that would test my theory, arrive at the answers using my gut instincts, and then use Google to see if anyone else agrees. […]
Al, I’m sure every guy who has been single for over a year can attest to your situation….I’m 30 years old, and I’m still single, and all of my friends from childhood are either married and have kids….As regards to the “nice guys finish last” dynamic, the problem is, that American society has lost all morals and values in the past 40 years….The young people, girls in particular, don’t know what respect is if it came up and slapped them in the face….Let me tell you a story from personal experience….When I was in high school, I became infatuated with a beautiful blonde girl, it seemed that we both fell in love with each other….But from the outset, I made so many mistakes in the courtship game that I was doomed from the start…..Here’s where I failed:
1. I worshipped her…..I wish I knew at 16 what I now know at 30, that women are human beings like everybody else…..everywhere she went, I went, like a faithful puppy dog…..whatever clues and red flags she waved about, I refused to notice…..for instance, her best friend would borrow my bus pass to go and have sex with jerks…..I should have never let her have my bus pass, but of course, that’s immaturity….
2. I didn’t act manly around her…..I was a wuss…..If the way that I act now, I would have acted at 16, we would probably be married and have had kids…..I could have been Superman at 16, instead, I was Clark Kent…..It’s good that I learned from my previous experiences, it’s made me more confident of who I am and more appreciative of life…..Your manhood is the most important thing a man will ever possess, don’t ever give it up for anyone…..Peace…..
Hi CharlesK - that was a sad story, my friend. It seems though that you have learned from that experience though and are more confident now. Hey, that makes your future wife a lucky woman
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